Comments on: Developing with XULRunner - DevDay Breakout http://starkravingfinkle.org/blog/2007/03/developing-with-xulrunner-devday-breakout/ Wed, 20 Aug 2008 09:49:22 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5 By: Harish Mallipeddi http://starkravingfinkle.org/blog/2007/03/developing-with-xulrunner-devday-breakout/#comment-1377 Harish Mallipeddi Wed, 04 Apr 2007 03:15:14 +0000 http://starkravingfinkle.org/blog/2007/03/developing-with-xulrunner-devday-breakout/#comment-1377 Is there a good tutorial which teaches you how to build XULRunner based apps (for the UI layer) and native code for the core processing? I've been wanting to do something like this for such a long time but so far I have only managed to find tutorials and documentation on how to build XUL+JS based FF extensions. Folks at Songbird and Joost seem to have figured this out. I would really appreciate it if you could point me to some good tutorial or even better if you could write a quick post on this blog! Is there a good tutorial which teaches you how to build XULRunner based apps (for the UI layer) and native code for the core processing? I’ve been wanting to do something like this for such a long time but so far I have only managed to find tutorials and documentation on how to build XUL+JS based FF extensions. Folks at Songbird and Joost seem to have figured this out.

I would really appreciate it if you could point me to some good tutorial or even better if you could write a quick post on this blog!

]]> By: tecosystems » links for 2007-04-03 http://starkravingfinkle.org/blog/2007/03/developing-with-xulrunner-devday-breakout/#comment-1351 tecosystems » links for 2007-04-03 Tue, 03 Apr 2007 05:38:49 +0000 http://starkravingfinkle.org/blog/2007/03/developing-with-xulrunner-devday-breakout/#comment-1351 [...] Mark Finkle’s Weblog » Developing with XULRunner - DevDay Breakout interesting piece on developing with XULRunner; on a related note, i wasn’t quite aware just how much XULRunner is in the new Lotus products (tags: XULRunner Mozilla Firefox Lotus via:Alex) [...] […] Mark Finkle’s Weblog » Developing with XULRunner - DevDay Breakout interesting piece on developing with XULRunner; on a related note, i wasn’t quite aware just how much XULRunner is in the new Lotus products (tags: XULRunner Mozilla Firefox Lotus via:Alex) […]

]]> By: Around the web | alexking.org http://starkravingfinkle.org/blog/2007/03/developing-with-xulrunner-devday-breakout/#comment-1272 Around the web | alexking.org Sun, 01 Apr 2007 07:35:00 +0000 http://starkravingfinkle.org/blog/2007/03/developing-with-xulrunner-devday-breakout/#comment-1272 [...] Developing with XULRunner - DevDay Breakout [...] […] Developing with XULRunner - DevDay Breakout […]

]]> By: Mark Finkle’s Weblog » Developer Tool Strategy - DevDay Breakout http://starkravingfinkle.org/blog/2007/03/developing-with-xulrunner-devday-breakout/#comment-1145 Mark Finkle’s Weblog » Developer Tool Strategy - DevDay Breakout Wed, 28 Mar 2007 21:17:27 +0000 http://starkravingfinkle.org/blog/2007/03/developing-with-xulrunner-devday-breakout/#comment-1145 [...] the XULRunner session, we also had a developer tools session at the Mountain View developer day. There was a lot of [...] […] the XULRunner session, we also had a developer tools session at the Mountain View developer day. There was a lot of […]

]]> By: leslie http://starkravingfinkle.org/blog/2007/03/developing-with-xulrunner-devday-breakout/#comment-1144 leslie Wed, 28 Mar 2007 20:50:55 +0000 http://starkravingfinkle.org/blog/2007/03/developing-with-xulrunner-devday-breakout/#comment-1144 I've been wondering, does XULRunner support progressive enhancement? What's great about Apollo is that I can copy the app.xml and just start writing a HTML/CSS DOM/JS web-style app, but then progressively enhance my app with Flex components. Can that be done with XUL? Also, I'm going to suggest that names are a powerful thing. People don't say they're going to build webapps with MXML, they say they're going to use Apollo, Flex, or Flash. I'm not sure what they'll say about XAML, but maybe they'll say Visual Studio or Expression Blend. When you say Mozilla, you think of the browser, not of the platform, and XUL doesn't quite ring a bell for many. Thoughts? What is the open app-platform built on top of Gecko/XUL called? Ideas from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gecko "Gargoyle" "Tokay" Pokemon-inspired: "Treecko" Geckomon Kimori Juptile Blink, Beast (from the Book of Mozilla) Mozko -- Moz(illa/Gec)ko Of these, I vote for "Mozko" or "Beast" :) ~L I’ve been wondering, does XULRunner support progressive enhancement?

What’s great about Apollo is that I can copy the app.xml and just start writing a HTML/CSS DOM/JS web-style app, but then progressively enhance my app with Flex components. Can that be done with XUL?

Also, I’m going to suggest that names are a powerful thing.

People don’t say they’re going to build webapps with MXML, they say they’re going to use Apollo, Flex, or Flash.

I’m not sure what they’ll say about XAML, but maybe they’ll say Visual Studio or Expression Blend.

When you say Mozilla, you think of the browser, not of the platform, and XUL doesn’t quite ring a bell for many. Thoughts? What is the open app-platform built on top of Gecko/XUL called?

Ideas from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gecko

“Gargoyle”
“Tokay”

Pokemon-inspired:
“Treecko”
Geckomon
Kimori
Juptile

Blink, Beast (from the Book of Mozilla)
Mozko — Moz(illa/Gec)ko

Of these, I vote for “Mozko” or “Beast” :)

~L

]]> By: pd http://starkravingfinkle.org/blog/2007/03/developing-with-xulrunner-devday-breakout/#comment-1139 pd Wed, 28 Mar 2007 14:23:36 +0000 http://starkravingfinkle.org/blog/2007/03/developing-with-xulrunner-devday-breakout/#comment-1139 @riccardo: yours is a good point about non-HTML developers not being able to tweak elementary properties without knowing CSS. I'm the opposite in that I come from a HTML/CSS background and have moved to Perl/PostgreSQL/JavaScript and some PHP tweaking. However I still have problems doing elementary things with XUL. Is it just me or is XUL foreign to desktop developers with no web experience but also foreign to developers of interactive web sites without strong JavaScript? I've toyed with JavaScript but - like I suspect a lot of web developers - only ever one or two functions at a time for specific minor tasks. When it comes to important widgets of a rich application nature, I tend to beg, borrow and re-purpose anything available. When I have sat down to try some serious JavaScript for an extension, I am intimidated by verbose and foreign XPCOM calls. Mark and John Resig looked like they were going to solve this with http://wiki.mozilla.org/FUEL but the 0.1 release is now a month overdue and I don't see a download link on that wiki. How is progress on FUEL Mark? @riccardo: yours is a good point about non-HTML developers not being able to tweak elementary properties without knowing CSS.

I’m the opposite in that I come from a HTML/CSS background and have moved to Perl/PostgreSQL/JavaScript and some PHP tweaking. However I still have problems doing elementary things with XUL.

Is it just me or is XUL foreign to desktop developers with no web experience but also foreign to developers of interactive web sites without strong JavaScript?

I’ve toyed with JavaScript but - like I suspect a lot of web developers - only ever one or two functions at a time for specific minor tasks. When it comes to important widgets of a rich application nature, I tend to beg, borrow and re-purpose anything available.

When I have sat down to try some serious JavaScript for an extension, I am intimidated by verbose and foreign XPCOM calls.

Mark and John Resig looked like they were going to solve this with http://wiki.mozilla.org/FUEL but the 0.1 release is now a month overdue and I don’t see a download link on that wiki.

How is progress on FUEL Mark?

]]> By: enefekt http://starkravingfinkle.org/blog/2007/03/developing-with-xulrunner-devday-breakout/#comment-1138 enefekt Wed, 28 Mar 2007 14:17:04 +0000 http://starkravingfinkle.org/blog/2007/03/developing-with-xulrunner-devday-breakout/#comment-1138 XULRunner needs to be in Firefox 3. XULRunner needs to be in Firefox 3.

]]> By: pd http://starkravingfinkle.org/blog/2007/03/developing-with-xulrunner-devday-breakout/#comment-1137 pd Wed, 28 Mar 2007 14:08:15 +0000 http://starkravingfinkle.org/blog/2007/03/developing-with-xulrunner-devday-breakout/#comment-1137 Thanks for the top Neil, very appreciated. Unfortunately though it's probably a good example of a weakness in XUL. I really don't want to criticise your tip but more illustrate the problem: I think this sort of thing should be easier than reading through source code for an component of the system. I really don't understand what nsI means as the prefix for all these component calls, let alone know how to read the component source to decipher what I need to do. Apologies if I am just being lazy. For what it's worth I really like where http://xulbooster.org is going with the 'plugins' (is that the correct term?) for Eclipse. I think that is the best way to go. I don't understand why an XUL IDE is apparently a controversial subject. Can someone please shed some light on that? Thanks for the top Neil, very appreciated.

Unfortunately though it’s probably a good example of a weakness in XUL. I really don’t want to criticise your tip but more illustrate the problem:

I think this sort of thing should be easier than reading through source code for an component of the system.

I really don’t understand what nsI means as the prefix for all these component calls, let alone know how to read the component source to decipher what I need to do.

Apologies if I am just being lazy.

For what it’s worth I really like where http://xulbooster.org is going with the ‘plugins’ (is that the correct term?) for Eclipse. I think that is the best way to go. I don’t understand why an XUL IDE is apparently a controversial subject. Can someone please shed some light on that?

]]> By: Neil http://starkravingfinkle.org/blog/2007/03/developing-with-xulrunner-devday-breakout/#comment-1136 Neil Wed, 28 Mar 2007 13:38:40 +0000 http://starkravingfinkle.org/blog/2007/03/developing-with-xulrunner-devday-breakout/#comment-1136 > I would like to figure out how to do a simplething like reading from the file > system and presenting thumbnail file ‘links’ as simple (and crappy) as Windows Explorer > does it. pd, you can do this by appending 'moz-icon:' to a file url. For instance: where size is 16 or 32. See http://lxr.mozilla.org/mozilla/source/modules/libpr0n/decoders/icon/nsIIconURI.idl for some info. > I would like to figure out how to do a simplething like reading from the file
> system and presenting thumbnail file ‘links’ as simple (and crappy) as Windows Explorer
> does it.

pd, you can do this by appending ‘moz-icon:’ to a file url.

For instance:

where size is 16 or 32.

See http://lxr.mozilla.org/mozilla/source/modules/libpr0n/decoders/icon/nsIIconURI.idl for some info.

]]> By: Riccardo http://starkravingfinkle.org/blog/2007/03/developing-with-xulrunner-devday-breakout/#comment-1131 Riccardo Wed, 28 Mar 2007 11:58:01 +0000 http://starkravingfinkle.org/blog/2007/03/developing-with-xulrunner-devday-breakout/#comment-1131 I agree that XULRunner is a very good product, but I think that it would need more documentation support: now you start using it and you feel like a pioneer, even if the platform looks very stable. I think that XUL is nice too, but not as flexible as it could be. For example I hit the problem of not being able to change the background color of a textbox without changing completely the style (I wanted to use the native theme and change the background, it seems not to be possible). My impression is that XAML is doing a better job than XUL, it is more flexible and "coherent". For example, imagine to be a new developer, and you are not a web developer: in order to be able to create a UI and personalize it a bit, you need to learn XUL and CSS, that are two completely different languages, different syntax, etc. With XAML, albeit complex, you have just one underlying language to do everything, UI description, styling, triggers, and so on. On documentation side it is difficult, sometimes, to understand how to change some basic property, because the docs seem to assume that you already know CSS well enough. Sometimes I've got the feeling that I'd be better off using HTML to do the UI, instead of XUL. Also RDF is really the mysterious piece for me: I did not have time to learn it. It would be good to have a version of "RAD with Mozilla" that is XUL centered, because that book is really saving me a lot of time, even if it speaks about Mozilla. BTW, think that I've been using XUL for a short period and only in my little free time. I agree that XULRunner is a very good product, but I think that it would need more documentation support: now you start using it and you feel like a pioneer, even if the platform looks very stable. I think that XUL is nice too, but not as flexible as it could be. For example I hit the problem of not being able to change the background color of a textbox without changing completely the style (I wanted to use the native theme and change the background, it seems not to be possible).
My impression is that XAML is doing a better job than XUL, it is more flexible and “coherent”. For example, imagine to be a new developer, and you are not a web developer: in order to be able to create a UI and personalize it a bit, you need to learn XUL and CSS, that are two completely different languages, different syntax, etc. With XAML, albeit complex, you have just one underlying language to do everything, UI description, styling, triggers, and so on.
On documentation side it is difficult, sometimes, to understand how to change some basic property, because the docs seem to assume that you already know CSS well enough. Sometimes I’ve got the feeling that I’d be better off using HTML to do the UI, instead of XUL.
Also RDF is really the mysterious piece for me: I did not have time to learn it. It would be good to have a version of “RAD with Mozilla” that is XUL centered, because that book is really saving me a lot of time, even if it speaks about Mozilla. BTW, think that I’ve been using XUL for a short period and only in my little free time.

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